Info to help compare roofing quotes
Comparing Quotes.
Little bit of back ground. Years and years ago before working for CSIRO I worked for BHP and Lysaghts. Quoting on structural steel, purlins and roofing material from building plans. I later had a Steel Rigging & Welding business that erected a number of the now old warehouses in Winnellie. Mostly just erecting the pre-fabricated main steel structures. ( like bolting together a giant Meccano set). Some of them required us to put the roof on as well. Point I am making is I do understand a bit about roofing materials.
And I’d say looking at the reports and quotes it would be easy to get confused. And maybe difficult for some of you to do a comparison between them.
Thought I may be able to shed some light on what they are talking about.
Its easy when you have plans because they specify the flashing types where as they guys will use the terms loosely and interchangeably
Eg. Barge, Rake, Edge , Hip & Gable Rake whilst technically different can and are used interchangeably by trades people.
Apron and abutment flashings are the same but if an apron flashing is cut into the wall it can becomes a reglet or chase flashing. A chase flashing is an apron flashing that has been chased (cut ) into the wall and commonly has an overflashing.
If you take an abutment flashing for example ,where a roof buts up against an end wall, (as is the case in places around our units,) The newer younger trades blokes will refer to that as a chase flashing because these days it would in fact normally be chased into the wall. And they would think its been installed incorrectly if it was not chased in. An older trade person will refer to it as an abutment flashing or an Apron flashing , if it’s been cut into the wall it would be a chased apron flashing or a reglet flashing.
Some may refer to apron flashings as the horizontal flashings below windows and around carports only. So have to be carefully that we know what actual flashings they are referring to.
Standar Apron flashing
In past typical siliconed and fixed to wall as is the situation on our buildings. AT some stage a few of ours have had extra silicone smeared on top edge ….Probably from the painters.
Roofers then moved on to cover flashing ..... right hand side below an example of apron flashing with a cover flashing to stop water running down behind apron flashing.
Apron Flashing now can have an angle crimp on end for chasing into the wall. When the crimp is pushed into the slot it makes difficult for it to come out. Still has to be used with sealant. If water gets into unprotected cut in cement block work it too can cause headaches because it can travel along the slot and nobody knows where its coming from
I believe that Chris was talking about using a chased over flashing like below.
This were a standard apron flashing is used against wall like ours but then they put an overlapping flashing that is chased into the wall above As per diagram to left.
Dektites
When report or quote refers to Dektites they are referring to the seals around plumbing pipes or really any thing that passes through the roof. All units have a toilet breather pipe . Some dont have dektites only deteriorated silicone some had a dektite cover but was not riveted or fixed . All were probably letting in some water down side of breather pipes . This NEEDs to be fixed
Only those that inspected all roofs picked this up .
That dark patch on North Coast Custom Roofing photo is a hole. Water can go straight into ceiling of this unit. The water will probably land on silver insulation paper and run down and come out somewhere else.
Comparing quotes
Comparing current quotes. Regardless of the reports these guys are only going to do what they have actually quoted for.. The main components are colour highlighted below
Chris Pederick Roofing
-cut and fit chase flashings to all apron/wall connections - supply and fit short apron flashings where the hips are lapped incorrectly to create the correct lap - replace the barges that are fitted on the bottom that have been lapped the wrong way - check the roof for loose screws and other poor workmanship - re-seal all joints, over-seal and paint sealant
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North Coast Custom Roofing
Reseal all apron flashings on block walls of all units, plug and sikaflex to wall
Reseal all dektites of toilet pipes, rivet and silicon Reseal all flashing joins on roof, rivet and silicon
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Stanley Roofing
Lap Join - half day x 1 unit - replace sheets - upgrade design elements - fixings and sealants (battens/angle)
Loose Screws and Aprons - 3 hrs per unit x 10 units - fixings and sealants
Gable Apron - 2 days x 2 units - replace fibro sheeting - fixings - paint and reseal
Replace Flashings - 1 day x 2 units - replace flashings- fixings and sealants
Dektites and Aerial Cables - half day x 10 units - replace dektites 1.00 - fixings and sealants - disposal of old aerials
Aircon Drains and Penetrations - half day x 2 units - extend aircon drain pipes 1.00 - grout around aircon penetrations - paint and sealant
Chris quote Upgrades all apron flashings to chased flashings. Not replacing apron flashing but providing a chased in over flashing. And reseal silicone on roofs
North Coast Custom Roofing - Reseal all existing Apron flashings and fix it to wall in a lot more places. And reseal flashings on roof.
Stanleys again using existing flashing resealing and fixing to wall in more places to wall. He doesn’t mention resealing all flashings on roof.
In all cases we end up with same effect at this point in that all joins are resealed except that Chris option provides long lasting upgraded apron flashings Which will not require any further work or touch up for a long time ..
Apron flashings done by both other contractors will need regular inspections And possible touch ups each year or so?
Chrise’s quote fixes incorrect overlaps on ends of hip flashings.. BUT How many are there .He did not check all roofs and therefore is portably allowing for this to be done on 10 units however others tend to indicate only two units share this. Stanley quote includes doing these in his quote
North Coast mentions them in report but does not quote for them.
Chris also includes the the bottom section of barge flashings that are incorrectly lapped. Again he is probably allowing for 10 units . I believe 8 units share this to some degree . Others mention but dont quote for this.
Not e Chris is only quote for replacing the piece of barge flashings at bottom..not the whole barge flashing. A small piece to be tucked under existing barge flashing.
Chris did not identify Unit 5 sheet overlap problem This is serious one . Arguably the most troubling of problems the roofs have according to Stanley. They marking it as the priority.
Stanley and North Coast also address dektite problem which definitely need doing and actually have potential to let fair bit of water in. I am sure Chris will pick up the two problems mentioned above once he started work but as he stated to us anything new he finds in doing the work would be extra to his quote. I believe thats to cover for not having actually looked at all roofs.
Main thing is addressing all apron flashings ..Each of quotes does this. North Coast Custom Roofing basically only does this.
Stanley fixes Gable flashing problem on 2 units and incorrect lapping of barge flashing on two units and Fixes major problem on Lisa ’s roof. On one sheet of tin the are screws not fastened into anything and tin Lapps in away that may let water in. However a loose sheet of tin on a cyclone roof is a worry.
Chris address apron flashings and incorrectly lapped joins. BUT at very expensive cost. $27,000 which will blow out when he discovers other jobs that need attending.
Ok let me explain incorrect lapping of barge and hip flashings. Seems unit one and 10 are fine in this regard. However most of other units have somewhere, where the barge flashing is a bit short and they have attached a small section to finnish it off to correct length. Of those some have been put on with the last smaller piece being on top of the one preceding it which means its lapped the wrong way . See photo I took of issue below
Took this one because it was easy for me on ground to get photo. This one is lapped correctly but evidently 4 of others are lapped the wrong way.. Issue is low risk as resultant leak would be outside unit but would stain the eves.
What do we do next.
Well there is a lot of questions to ask the contractors..
With Chris quote we have no idea what we are paying for ..cut and fit chase flashings to all apron/wall connections
Confirmation that this means everywhere that a roof flashing sits against a rendered block wall.
How many hip flashing lapped incorrectly 1 or 20.
How many short barge ends are lapped incorrectly
There is no mention in quote about where ridge of one unit joins adjacent unit.
With North Coast Custom Roofing quote .
Will old silicon be removed and joins cleaned
After resealing all flashings does quote include painting.
When they say reseal all flashings joins on roof does this include flashing joins on roof that have not been sealed before.
Does this mean every flashing regardless of type will be sikaflex sealed.
Quote says 15 year guarantee how does that work when silicone does not last that long especially without being painted.
With Stanley Roofing.
What guarantee do they give on their work.
What additional level of work is required before they can guarantee roof will not leak.
Clarify what "Loose Screws and Aprons - 3 hrs per unit x 10 units
- fixings and sealants " means ?
. Does quote guarantee that all flashing that sit against any rendered block wall will be resealed.
Gable Apron - 2 days x 2 units - replace fibro sheeting - fixings - paint and reseal ...Says 2 days 2 units but report only mentions gable flashing on unit 1 ? Which other unit has a Gable flashing problem?
Also do not under stand why finishing off gable apron and fixing would cost $3220 ...need some clarification there.??
Then also obvious question why does Stanley quote near $4,000 for resealing all apron flashings and $1.080 for doing Dektites flashings A total of $5,000
When North Coast Custom roofing only charge $1771.00 to do both the same jobs
If it were me.
I’d be inclined to get North Coast Custom Roofing to reseal everything . $1,771.00
With intension of contracting him to inspect roof every year prior to wet season. And in mean time get him to quote on doing Lisa problem, then incorrectly lapped areas couple at time.
But its up to you people.